The date that will live in infirmary
by CmdrFenix on Mar.22, 2010, under General
That was the title from the drugereport.com and I think it pretty much hits the nail on the head. Well, if you hadn’t already guessed, the “turkey” that is the Health Insurance Reform bill has passed the House and is on its way to the president to be signed.
On the cusp of succeeding where numerous past congresses and administrations have failed, jubilant House Democrats voted 219-212 late Sunday to send legislation to Obama that would extend coverage to 32 million uninsured Americans, reduce deficits and ban insurance company practices such as denying coverage to people with preexisting medical conditions.
This particular topic is very electrifying to many, but here are my feelings on it. Disagree with them if you want, I don’t care, but this is how *I* feel about it and I think Dr. Earl Sunderhaus says it best and many Americans agree with me.
Sunderhaus said he feels it is his responsibility as a physician to tell his patients to live healthier lives and that obesity and diabetes are costing the country millions of dollars.
…
“Telling this lady that she is fat is the truth, and it’s for her own good health,” Sunderhaus said. “She should be taking better care of herself, and it will be cheaper for us as a society.”
…
Because millions of Americans are secretly thinking the exact same thing as Dr. Sunderhaus and I: Why should we be forced to pay for the costs of other people’s irresponsibility?
Before I dive into the parts of the bill that I think are complete bullshit, I think the last line above speaks for me as to why I despise the concept of universal health care system. Why should I pay for other people’s indiscretions? I’m talking about things like (as shown in the link above):
- Obesity
- Cigarette smoking
- Alcohol abuse
- Reckless behavior
- Criminal activity
- Unprotected promiscuous sex
- Use of illicit drugs
- Cultural traditions
- Bad diets
All of these items are preventable by the person involved. Now I personally don’t really care if you do all these things. I don’t care if you decide to have unprotected promiscuous sex with hundreds of other partners and give yourself AIDS, but why do I need pay for it? If you want to smoke two dozen packs of cigarettes a day, have at it! Just don’t ask me to pay when you develop lung cancer. You can sit there and call me selfish, and that is fine, but the moment you start to force something like health care on people, then everyone gets turned into yentas on other people’s behavior. If Joe Blows kid is drag racing and hits a telephone pole, why should all of us pay for that? I know I’m not the only one who’s pissed off about that.
Getting off the personal beliefs about it, the CBO has shown that is does *NOT* reduce the deficit, and any person that can sit there and say we need to spend money to get ourselves out of debt is whacked. If you are short on your rent or your cable TV, you have to cut spending to pay for it, and not spend more money.
CBO estimates that enacting H.R. 3961 [the "doc fix"], by itself, would cost $210 billion over the 2010–2019 period. CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation have separately estimated that enacting H.R. 3962 [the health care bill] would reduce federal budget deficits by $109 billion over that same period.
CBO estimates that enacting both bills would add $89 billion to budget deficits over the 2010–2019 period, somewhat less than the sum of the effects of enacting the bills separately because of interactions between their provisions. The agency estimates that the two bills together would increase the budget deficit in 2019 by $23 billion relative to current law, an increment that would grow in subsequent years.
So we’re going to spend 940 billion dollars to save 109 billion? You have to be kidding me, and before I put anyone’s boxers in a twist, that last line makes my point, “…an increment that would grow in subsequent years”. Once you force everyone to have health insurance, you now have to pay for it and if you take MA (which has universal health care) as an example, the cost of universal health care in MA is grown every year to the point the State is horribly in debt. The CBO has also shown that 500 billion in savings from Medicare is going to be spent elsewhere, which means… guess what? It’s not a savings!
Also, premiums *will* continue to rise as they have in MA. According to the CBO premiums could increase 10 to 13 percent. Look, I am not saying there isn’t problems within our health care system (our premium increases have been obnoxious and the whole concept of preexisting condition exclusion pisses me off), but this is NOT how I feel the situation should be fixed.
March 22nd, 2010 on 9:04 am
While I’m no super big fan of this current bill (about 1/3 is stupid, and they took out most of the good parts), you’re motivation is … just … incredibly self-centered and asshole-ish. Very asshole-ish.
“leave me alone, dont take my stuff to help other people” attitudes are going to keep us chained to an 1800s-esque culture.
You seem to have this attitude where it’s “ok” for someone to suffer the rest of their life, and get into a pit that it’s (in a practical sense) impossible to dig out of, just because they made an individual mistake. “Personal responsiblity” and all that, even though all it would take was for you to pony up your one-dollar share to help them out and change a life.
Fuck that. Fuck that arrogant self-centered selfish attitude. I honestly hope the “haves” that feel that way end up destitute in the gutter unable to fend for themselves despite their best efforts (the deck really is stacked against the have-nots, just try it some time.) wishing, hoping, that there was some “safety net” to help them….
March 22nd, 2010 on 9:47 am
You are wrong. I support some social programs to help those in need including, Medicare (in need of a lot of work), Social Security, Unemployment benefits, and even (*gasp*) the “option” to perhaps buy into a cheap gov’t sponsored health plan for those who have no easy option, but I’m sorry the justification for paying for someone else’s indiscretions is unamerican IMHO.
March 22nd, 2010 on 9:49 am
What’s “unamerican” is putting “my stuff” higher in priorities then “other people’s basic needs”.
A life not lived for others, is a life not worth living.
March 27th, 2010 on 4:58 pm
I love that I’m an arrogant asshole because I believe when I give to charity, I should do it for my own reasons and the charity of my choice. But when you want my money, my labor, my property, you can just come and take it because I don’t need it as much as others do, according to you. Since when is it the purpose of government to provide people with “basic needs” on the backs of others without their consent. Since when is mandatory health insurance a “basic need”. I thought food, shelter, clothing were basic needs. If you want to steal from me, why don’t you just come do it instead of voting to have your agents steal from me?
March 28th, 2010 on 3:11 pm
Since we evolved out of the stone age.
If you want anarchy, where no government “agents” will come steal your stuff, move to Somalia. Otherwise, pay your taxes like a patriot.
March 29th, 2010 on 3:53 pm
I hand over 15% of my income for federal income taxes. My employer matches it (money he would pay me if it wasn’t taken from him). I hand over several more % for social security that is now officially paying out more than it recieves. My employer matches it. I pay more for medicare, which my employer matches. I hand over 15% of my income in property taxes, hundreds of dollars in vehicle registration “fees” (aka property tax). Every time I purchase gasoline I pay more taxes. When I go out to eat, buy coffee, alchohol, and so on, I pay 9%. If I invest any money, the federal and state government take a large portion of any earnings (of course, I’m taking 100% of the risk, they don’t help me if I lose money). I’ve paid enough money in the last 10 years to pay off my entire mortgage and have some left over. I work 4 months out of the year, I’m currently having 100% of my check taken, sometime in April, I’ll get to keep some of it. If the founding fathers were here today, they would consider it patriotic to burn Washington to the ground and salt the soil. But I’m supposed to give more and be happy about it. I don’t think so. I’ve given plenty as a patriot, 4 years of service in the Marines (where I made less than someone on welfare who sits around all day) and a year in the National Guard. I volunteer on my local fire department, I give blood, donate money to my church and other charities that I find worthy. If you want a european socialist government where they take 70% of your income, move to France, the UK, or Canada.
March 29th, 2010 on 3:55 pm
I meant to say, I work 4 months out of the year to pay taxes. I’m in bondage for 4 months out of the year.
March 29th, 2010 on 8:00 pm
See previous commentary. The taxes you pay are the membership fee for living in an awesome free country. I’m mostly happy with the current balance of taxes-v-services.
As for your investments, and you taking 100% of the risk .. how many enron shareholders went to prison? What risk do you take, other then losing the initial investment, if you invest in a company that breaks the law or pollutes a river or ends up owing its creditors billions of dollars? How’s your own personal liability of you form your own chapter-S? Financial risk isnt the kind of risk people should be talking about in terms of investment. Again, you’ve got that “property” on the brain, but that’s fine. I’ve got that “justice” thing on the brain, and we probably wont see eye to eye on it.
And again, if you want crazy anarchy land where you’ll get all that “liberty” without ol’ gubmint interfearing, where you’re left to your own devices to defend yourself and survive on your own .. there’s a conservative dreamland just waiting for you on the horn of africa. And if you want to compare demographics of liberal dreamland v conservative dreamland, I’d stack norway against somalia just about any day of the year.
March 29th, 2010 on 8:05 pm
Oh, for context .. I actually owe taxes this year, including tax on a 401k from a previous employer I was forced to cash-out on, and consulting income with no deductions. I’m broke, and cannot afford to pay the tax I owe. I’ve yet to complain about it.
March 30th, 2010 on 7:18 pm
I had a similiar problem with a 401K, I borroed money, and then my employer shut it down. I had to pay the penalties and taxes or pay off the loan that year. I had to pay the penalty.
Obviously, were not going to agree on anything. I don’t think that if I work a few weeks out of the year instead 4 months to pay taxes that this country will turn into Somolia. The fee that I pay for your civilization is far too high. And for context, my wife is unemployed, with a severely broken arm (that we paid to fix). I have to put my son in daycare because she can’t care for him. If I could keep the 400$ they take out my paycheck each week, and the 500$ a month in property taxes each month, we would be all set. Instead, we’re going to have our house foreclosed on, and there aren’t any gub’mint programs to help us stay in it. Don’t worry though, I’ll take on a second job and ask family to come help at night while I work to pay taxes so you can have your utopia.
March 30th, 2010 on 7:19 pm
Not that I would take stolen government money to stay in our house, that would be wrong.
March 31st, 2010 on 2:18 pm
Well I’m sorry to hear you wouldn’t accept assistance if it was offered. But as a good capitalist, “if they wont take/use what’s offered, screw em, to the gutter!” .. that’s the correct attitude, right?
So what alternative have you found to driving on roads built with stolen government money? How do you avoid using telecommunication lines that were originally setup with stolen government grants? What’s your advice on how to avoid my municipal water system that is funded through stolen money?
I mean, let’s go all the way right? If we’re going to refuse help that comes from “stolen” money, let’s not half-ass it …
Please remember one key thing – Language matters. It’s only “stealing” or “theft” if you get nothing back. You get a -LOT- back for your tax dollars (even if you personally do not value or even recognize the return), which hardly constitutes having it “stolen” from you or whatever.
You did make one hopefull comment though, when you said “I don’t think that if I work a few weeks out of the year instead 4 months to pay taxes that this country will turn into Somolia.”. I agree with you on this point, but please remember that you havent been talking about “a few weeks out of the year instead of 4 months [worth in taxes]” you’ve been talking about zero effective taxes. There’s a HUGE difference.
If you want to get on board with efficiency in government that’s something we can both agree about. The government doesnt need to be “big” to be effective and deliver services. However, if you want to remove that government altogether, I’m going to pull up Somalia’s demographics and then refer you to 18USC…
March 31st, 2010 on 2:21 pm
Er, rather 18USC Chapter 115 to be more specific.